i mean, i've been in the civil rights fight for the last several decades. and i remember the beginnings of the fight against apartheid here. robinson and gray and others who were castigated and attacked for that. and they were able to turn public opinion around. having to fight people like dick cheney and others who are now with these great eulogies on nelson mandela. >> that's right. i think people forget that. when people like you and mary francis berry were in the beginning of that fight, it was demonized and you were attacked for that. and it was not a popular position. and so i think there's a lot about the history that people. he oversimplifies everything. so does rush limbaugh. they don't care about what the facts are. that is here is a man who stood for justice, stood for freedom, stood for equality. we have a president who seems to -- i'm not saying he is nelson mandela, but he seems to be trying to accomplish some of the same things. >> karen finney, well, he's getting called some of the same names. thank you for your time tonight. be sure to watc